Give Me a Freakin Break!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Soft Prophecy vs. Hard
By David Bunker
In a world of hype and packaged spontaneity I am not surprised that GodMen is being engaged by many whose only reference point is an article or website cruise. As they say...its all good. I am not surprised, either, by the spirit of religiosity and Phariseeism rearing its ugly head.
Tony Campolo's famous s-word display actually cost him speaking engagements as those booking such events wanted to make sure that no one is offended. There are many things that are offensive in this world. They differ for many people but historically profanity has always been considered taboo. Let's ask ourselves what is really profane? Is it more profane to see absentee fathers, to see whole generations lacking any male leadership, to see men walking away from their spiritual destinies and legacies because we do not want to offend someone's opinions on profanity?
It is clear in Scripture that Christian men should be careful with their speech. What being careful means I am sure is open to debate. But let's ask ourselves if there is a difference between what is profane and what is vulgar. It is our goal as godly men to make sacred what is considered "of the world or profane." What is vulgar comes under the spiritual mandate to not mention in public or private for that matter without the proper context and setting.
I think our struggle here is that we are so caught up in the legalisms of speech and propriety that men in power can use for control and shame such that men down the food chain will kill their own to make sure they stay on the side of the power. Have you ever been in one of the discussions where everyone is distancing themselves from the "disowned one?" Something inside our darker selves allows us to cut people off because we don't think they talk right or talk like we do. We end up being offended at the wrong thing.
The appropriateness of "cussing" is open to debate but the issue of speaking honestly in the appropriate place is really what the church needs. There is way too much propriety at the risk of truth telling. This is why the 12 Steppers had to show the church how to really repent. No one wanted to really say what was going on. Are we going to continue to farm honesty out to the therapeutic community or secular men's movement became we do not want to offend someone over the wrong issue?
People are dying world wide because of the aids pandemic, being mutilated & murdered in
One of the reasons a guy like Bono has stayed outside the Christian world by in large until recently is because we have people dismissed for seemingly minor moral infractions when a world is dying both literally and spiritually. For me, the GodMen weekend was a wakeup call to the Church. It was as weekend full of caring men who are willing to risk being open and honest at any cost. If that offends a few people so be it.
Let's wake up here and discuss what is really going on. One only needs to cursively take a look at prison statistics to see that men (especially minorities) need help. If we offer some idiotic diatribe about profanity we might as well call ourselves "kindergarten cops." I am never amazed (never) at the silliness that is birthed in our souls when we hold ourselves over others deepest needs with religion and regulations that anyone can do in the flesh if they so choose. That is why religion of that kind is death and not life.
Regarding the debate of tactics and the nature of engagement regarding the problem of men and the Church, bring it on!!!!! But if the discussion degenerates into some self righteous discussion of how holy we are by not using certain words...count me out. This is not to avoid bringing my speech under the Lordship of Christ. It is to make sure I get what really grieves the Father and what is real and utterly profane in this world.
It takes much love and care of men to wade through the response regarding what is going on with men and the Church right now. The separation of "the men from the boys" will ultimately not come down to language. It will come down to taking the risk of speaking into each others lives, standing along side a brother when he really needs you, and exposing your own sin so that you (I) do not become the very Pharisee we seek to expose.
26 Comments:
At 11:53 AM , Anonymous said...
It seems maybe the hangup is guys who think they need to use certain language to show they are macho or liberated in some other way.
Since even the world considers certain language inappropriate, why not just drop it and in so doing less people are offended for stupid things.
There is also value in not putting a stumbling block before another. Am I willing to deny myself for another even if I need to deny myself certain liberties?
Drop the high sounding talk and use a little common sense.
At 12:44 PM , Bob Nelson said...
Godmen doth protest too much, methinks
If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion [is] vain.
James 1:26 (KJV)
From my own experience, I have found that walking with Christ is quite a task. It is easy to get way ahead of Him and even easier to fall far behind. (In my opinion) The only way that we will ever be able to “walk on water” is if we are right by His side in lock-step with Him. Jesus should be our primary focus and our only example of the Way to proceed, the Truth we must read and the Light we must see and be.
It is up to all of us, as Christians, to open our hearts and let GOD reign down on us to convict us and confront our motives on a personal level. We must hone in on the sin that we, personally, may see as small and insignificant.
Take us the foxes, the little foxes, that spoil the vines: for our vines [have] tender grapes.
Song 2:17 (KJV)
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth [it] not, to him it is sin.
James 4:17 (KJV)
But if people have doubts about whether they should eat something, they shouldn't eat it. They would be condemned for not acting in faith before God. If you do anything you believe is not right, you are sinning.
Rom 14:23 (NLT)
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.
Jam 2:10 (KJV)
I am a pretty well known comedian who is a Christian. I have been judged by what has spilled from my mouth during some performances. I have learned to take “church criticism” on the chin... (After I pray away my feelings of being offended by the criticism)... I do my best to bring it to the Lord for examination.. After all, God is the only judge who can hand me a death sentence. He alone knows my heart, as he knows yours... including those who sow dissention towards your efforts as well as those who campaign for your cause.
Regardless of your position, The Word charges us to be the best example of Christ that we can be to the unsaved.
Instead of the church becoming more world-like, I’d like to see the world become more Christ-like. (Easier said than done)
So, I say, don't wrestle with flesh and blood, bring it on to God and see what His opinion is. I pray your mission ultimately succeeds.
Bob Nelson
At 7:45 PM , Anonymous said...
Right on Bob!
Hey, say hi to Gus. I love your Bananas video.
At 4:17 AM , Anonymous said...
For what it's worth, I must live with Tourette Syndrome, so Godmens view of profanity has a much deeper meaning for me.
I'ts a relatively mild case, and I've never randomly yelled profanities out loud, but when I hurt myself, I do let out a lot of f-bombs. I can't really help it, and used to stress myself out to the point of exhaustion trying to contain it.
I've always thought I shouldn't feel quite so guilty about the way God made me, but now I know for sure.
I'm glad some of the commenters from some of the other blogs are so perfect that they've never uttered a single swear, even when they whack their thimb with a hammer. I envy them, but I can never be like them.
There is someting about the natural aggression that God gave men as part of His plan. Strong words stem from a mans primal instincts. It's hard to explain, but I'm a little more in touch with the source than all the normals, and so I have spent a lot of time thinking about it.
The point that Mr. Couglin makes (in his book)about using irreverant language to describe an injustice is legitimate as well. When used conservatively, some cuss words are very powerful, especially when spoken or written by a godly man.
I will always agree that there is no excuse to cuss for no good reason, but sometimes the cause is just and we need not feel so guilty about it.
At 12:09 PM , JM said...
Ok, I'm a woman lurking here, but I want to make two points, if you will allow. One, Mr. Bunker, I commend you.
It has disturbed me for years that the Christian community focuses on someone cussing when compared to the real injustices of the world, the things we should truly take offense at, a few words arbitrarily chosen by society as "cuss words"--whatever that truly means--seems to entirely miss the point.
And frankly, this arbitrary set of innuterable words is not as universal as we may think. I lived in Europe growing up, and it seemed to me that words that translated into "curse words" in English really didn't carry the same societal weight, the same taboo-attachment, as they do here in America. They were merely--words.
My second point--I am a woman, I curse when I feel it's appropriate. Sometimes certain words are the best chosen to express indignation, anger, the intensity of emotion. It's not about shock value or being vulgar--to me it's about appropriate language to the situation or the intensity of emotion one feels.
That being said, yes of course there are times where it is not appropriate to swear, like in front of children, in general. But if I offend a church friend because of a word choice (and I reiterate--not used gratuitously, for shock value or vulgarity for vulgarity's sake)--well, sometimes I think maybe I have done a service to humanity.
When scripture talks about watching your tongue, that it has the power to kill or give life, my opinion is that the point of that is not--don't say these seven words--but don't tear down your wife, don't always point out your husband's faults, don't gossip, praise your kids, don't sugarcoat the truth (ultimately killing by covering up a harmful behaviour). These can take away or give life, coverup or uncover the truth, build someone up or rip them to pieces inside. So far as I know, the words sh-t, f-ck, or d-amn have never cause emotional harm to a person when used in context--i.e. not calling someone sh-tface, or talking about f-cking a woman, or telling godd-amn you--yes of course that's harmful. The point is context.
If all you can see when I make a statement of emotional intensity is one particularly word, and not instead hear either the pain and anger or rage concerning myself or someone else or world-wide injustice--maybe you are completely missing the point.
Maybe Jesus cussed too. If they had words considered cuss words in his society.
At 12:15 PM , JM said...
Man, I apologize for the many typos in my previous post directly above. I type faster than I think and I didn't proof it.
At 6:04 PM , anonymous apostate said...
People are going hungry right the down the road, people are on the street in sub-freezing weather tonight, innocent lives are being snuffed out by the thousands, woemen and children are being victimized in abusive homes, people are turning to drugs and alcohol to cope with their problems, children live without parents. And while all that goes on, Christians argue amogst themselves about whether or not its is ok in GODS eyes to use certain words.
You say that even the world finds this language innappropriate? Have you watched television? Listened to what kids are listening to? I am not saying it justifies certain language but I do think it gives us a taste of what the 'world' deems appropriate or not.
One reason I left the Christian faith was because I couldn't understand how Christians could throw scripture in other Christians face knowing full well that they too were guilty of sinning. I guess I just always saw that as the whole plank in the eye thing. I never was good with metaphors though, so I was probably way off.
Maybe arguing amonst yourselves about this whole thing is doing more harm to Christian faith than it is good. I dont want you to change your mind. I would be more frightened if I could. Just quit the complaining and let people be their own person.
Quit putting God in a box, you are killing him.
At 8:25 PM , Shawn Wilson said...
Thank you eeyore. What a great post.
At 2:28 AM , Xtian said...
The profanity is the least of my concerns... what concerns me is that throughout the bible God calls all to holiness and obedience, but instead of doing what the bible says we think we can decide what is worse (murder, poverty, etc) over our disobedience to God (to be set apart, holy and righteous in word, thot and deed). While murder & poverty are terrible injustices, what is more terrible is standing before God and having to answer for disobeying Him! Remember Jesus said that the poor will always be with you and that all things happen to display the Glory of God and for the glory of the Son of God (read the book of John).
What doesnt surprise me about this "godmen" thing, is that it celebrates being a man (we celebrate everything else in the modern day American churches, why not our testosterone too), unfortunately the bible says otherwise - there is a much greater call for us to do, and unfortunately this ommission is a greater sin.
The bible says that if we love Him (Jesus) then we should obey His commands. I wonder how many "godmen" are going out witnessing on a regular basis. I wonder how many "godmen" are going to take a radical stand for Jesus Christ when this is all said and done. Or will the monday after the "godmen" event just be another normal day where most men will not utter a word to anyone about the saving power of Jesus Christ to their lost co-workers, families and friends. Or will it be another night in front of the tube watching monday night football, where the TV becomes a modern day idol that not only removes us from interacting with our families, but also removes us from interacting with God and fellow believers. Wake up men! Get rid of the TV and seek His face for a change!
Ummm... gee I wonder what Jesus will say on judgment day... "Have you prayed and witnessed to more lost souls, or have you watched more football games, monster truck pulls and hunting trips?
Suddenly this "godmen" thing seems so trivial when you consider that over 150,000 people die each day and the majority of them are going to burn in Hell; all because a bunch of men would rather celebrate their manliness and try to inject some "christian" testosterone back into the church. How disgusting that we can gather to rant, yell and rave about our "christian" testosterone but totally disobey the commands of the one who created us. After all, who are we to say what church is... but I guess if you dont read and take seriously the bible, then you can make church whatever you want, but lets look at it from God's perspective... what men should do...
Imagine God telling the stars to form and move to their places in the heavens, and they do. Imagine God telling the mountains to rise and valleys to move and shape the earth, and they do. Imagine God telling the winds to blow and the rain to fall, and they do. Imagine everything that God created in the first 5 days, and it all obeyed His commands...
But when God commands His men to witness to the lost, spend serious time in prayer, or lead his family in bible study... the majority of so called "christian" men say "NO!"... "I WANT TO CELEBRATE MY MANHOOD!"... "ITS MY RIGHT TO BE A MAN AND I WANT TO TAKE BACK THE CHURCH FROM THE WOMEN!"... "I WANT... I WANT... I WANT..." and "GIVE ME... GIVE ME... GIVE ME..."
Its disgusting... we sound like spoiled little children instead of men of God!
How sad it is that disobedience is so easily replaced with infatuation with ourselves and our testosterone... it all comes down to idolatry in the eyes of God. Have you not considered that the church is not male or female, but a place of obedience to God, where the saints are to be equipped for His good works? God sent His Son to die for all of us wicked men and all you can do is go to some event that centers and celebrates the pride of men, but you wont warn anyone of the judgment of God and the eternal fate of those who are lost? How much pride and selfishness have we come to fill ourselves with, that we cannot even tell if its right or wrong. We hide in the guise of a "cause" for "christian" men. How pitiful...
I have come to the point where all the fluff and eye candy of modern American Christianity is for nought in the eyes of God. What counts is obeying the One who saved us - I know middle school children who are more Godly than most men who will attend these events, children who will pray for the lost, read their bibles and actually do something about it.
Remember pride comes before the fall, so please lay down your manly pride and do the work has commanded you to do. Or have all you manly men forgotten what His commands are? or did you even know them to begin with?
Jesus said in Matt 10:32 "Every one, therefore, who shall confess me before men, I also will confess him before my Father who is in heaven and whoever shall deny me before men, I also will deny him before my Father who is in heaven."
If you want to be a real man of God, pray everyday by yourself and with your family. Lead your family in bible study and learn to explain to God's word. Hide His word in your heart and memorize scripture. Take care of orphans and widows, teach and preach the Good News to the lost on a regular basis... but do all this because you truely love Him who saved you, and not because your a "man".
I guess what I am saying is to not celebrate your testosterone until after you do this and there are no more lost people in your town, and no more widows or orphans in your town... well, move and go to the next town and do it again. Then when your state is no longer lost, move to another state... then another country... then after you have done all you can... you will see that celebrating your manliness is worthless because then you might see that Jesus is the one who deserves all worship, praise and celebration.
What is more important... your testosterone, which God designed to decrease as you get older, or one lost soul?
I hope that this "godmen" thing changes gears quickly to where it brings men to their knees in repentence, and then to action for HIS cause.
TC&GB,
Xtian
p.s. the bible says to let no unwholesome language come from your mouth. After all, how can the power of God and His word come out, convict and wash the world of its sin when the mouth it comes from is muddy and dirty as well? No wonder most men do not see the works of God evident in their lives...
"From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brothers, these things ought not to be so. Does a spring pour forth from the same opening both fresh and salt water? Can a fig tree, my brothers, bear olives, or a grapevine produce figs? Neither can a salt pond yield fresh water." (Jam 3:10-12)
At 2:45 AM , Xtian said...
BTW "Freakin" as seen in the thread title is a minced oath...
"A minced oath: an expression of profanity which has been reduced or minced; Although seemingly not as harsh, they are generally avoided in speech as it is just a shortened form of the original profanity."
See: 'F_CK', 'F'in', 'Effin'..."
Wow, what a great witness for the world, I can hardly tell the difference between the world and author of this "godmen" article.
At 9:23 AM , Xtian said...
My comments in bold....
David Bunker said... "Regarding the debate of tactics and the nature of engagement regarding the problem of men and the Church, bring it on!!!!!
But if the discussion degenerates into some self righteous discussion of how holy we are by not using certain words...count me out.
So where does God's call and command to Holiness come into play. There is a fruit of the spirit that is called "self control" and I remember that God said "Be Holy as I am Holy".
Or does being a man give us the excuse to cuss and swear? Does this negate the commands and examples we see in the bible? Does this not make it a sin in God's eyes anymore?
My question is... what are you counting outt?
This is not to avoid bringing my speech under the Lordship of Christ. It is to make sure I get what really grieves the Father and what is real and utterly profane in this world.
What really grieves the Father is sin.
According to His word "it is appointed man once to die, then the judgment". Each of us will individually have to give an account for every word and deed (every sin we omitt and committ). Its funny David that you see levels of profane, that one is far worse than others and assume that God sees it this way as well. Dont you know God and His word screams otherwise?
Its obvious that men dont like to read the instructions or even ask for them, but when our lack of understanding and prideful ignorance wander from the straight and narrow path, I have to recommend that all men go back and read the book (the bible) and make a concerted effort to do what it says.
At 10:06 AM , Xtian said...
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
At 4:46 PM , Xtian said...
My comments in bold to eeyore's statements...
It has disturbed me for years that the Christian community focuses on someone cussing when compared to the real injustices of the world, the things we should truly take offense at, a few words arbitrarily chosen by society as "cuss words"--whatever that truly means--seems to entirely miss the point.
Again God sees sin as sin. Ono is no greater than the other in His eyes, as all of them are punishable by Hell, as they are all against the Almighty God no matter who we say them too.
Ever wonder why if you make a threat to some average Joe or Jane its no problem - no big deal, but if you make a threat against the President of the U.S., by law you can be imprisoned for 3-5 years?
Its because of the authority and power of the one you threaten. Now apply that same principle to your words and actions and you will see that cursing is against the highest authority that ever was, is or will ever be.
Now you can see why what we consider (swearing from time to time) as no big deal, but in His eyes it is a major offense against an eternal God ; so the punishment requires an eternal punishment.
Ummm...
And frankly, this arbitrary set of innuterable words is not as universal as we may think. I lived in Europe growing up, and it seemed to me that words that translated into "curse words" in English really didn't carry the same societal weight, the same taboo-attachment, as they do here in America. They were merely--words.
Words have meaning... if the meaning behind them is the same, then it doesnt matter if I use a curse word from Africa, Asia or American, it is still sin in the eyes of God.
My second point--I am a woman, I curse when I feel it's appropriate.
Its too bad that you feel and believe this way. God says its never appropriate.
Sometimes certain words are the best chosen to express indignation, anger, the intensity of emotion.
The bible says that its okay to be angry but the most important part is to not sin while you are in this state.
It's not about shock value or being vulgar--to me it's about appropriate language to the situation or the intensity of emotion one feels.
Gee do you have any biblical support for this statement? Again it is never okay according to the bible.
That being said, yes of course there are times where it is not appropriate to swear, like in front of children, in general. But if I offend a church friend because of a word choice (and I reiterate--not used gratuitously, for shock value or vulgarity for vulgarity's sake)--well, sometimes I think maybe I have done a service to humanity.
Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil. As I recall our service is to God as we were bought at a very high price. Let me ask you this... what curse words would you use in front of God Himself before His throne? None I imagine (rather I hope).
If this is the case, and in light of the fact that IF you are a christian, Jesus is in your heart 24/7, then your swearing greives Him and the Holy Spirit every time you do it. Ever wonder why you dont see Him working more and more in your life? Wonder why your spiritual life has hit a dry spell? Perhaps its because your trying to be like the world, instead of following Him and forsaking everything else.
When scripture talks about watching your tongue, that it has the power to kill or give life, my opinion is that the point of that is not--don't say these seven words--
Get this thru your head... It doesnt matter what your opinion is, its what God says in His word that counts. Or have you forgotten when Jesus said "Heaven and earth will pass away, but ME and my words will not pass away!" So why are you choosing words that will waste away and die? Remember too its what comes our of our mouth that is judged - if your heart is wicked then your mouth will show forth its wickedness.,
So far as I know, the words sh-t, f-ck, or d-amn have never cause emotional harm to a person when used in context--i.e. not calling someone sh-tface, or talking about f-cking a woman, or telling godd-amn you--yes of course that's harmful. The point is context.
According to the ten commandments, which Jesus expounded upon in the NT (which He was also the author of in the OT), using God's name in vain (the third commandment - using His name as a cussword) reduces the name of the God who gave you life and every good thing you have, down to a disgusting filth word is revolting and sinful in ever situation, no matter the context. Imagine this...
When the angels in heaven cannot look at the face of God, but only hide their faces and cry "HOLY, HOLY, HOLY!" 24/7, how dare you curse and profane the Almighty God who created heaven and earth! How dare you assume to have the authority to do such a thing.
Who do you think you are?,
If all you can see when I make a statement of emotional intensity is one particularly word, and not instead hear either the pain and anger or rage concerning myself or someone else or world-wide injustice--maybe you are completely missing the point.
Again, in your anger do not sin - how simple is that? If this is a problem, perhaps you need to seek God and repent for not seeing your actions as they really are... an offense to the Almighty God who created everything.
Maybe Jesus cussed too.
NO!
Jesus lived a sinless life, and if you contend otherwise your attacking the one thing that sets biblical Christianity apart from all other beliefs (His sinless life that was the only thing that paid for your sin and gave you the possibility of an eternal life with Him, instead of the punishment we all so rightly deserve). No wonder the Church in American is so dispictable, it tramples on the Holiness and deity of the One who has been given all power and authority.
My adice is for you to read what the bible says and get its "opinion" because yours is so like the world's I cant tell the difference (sarcasm intended).
At 8:38 AM , Aaron said...
I rarely curse, but big deal that someone used a curse word. IMHO, people that act offended are the first ones to start pointing fingers.
Too often men hide their sin, or interest in sin, that we all face, possibly as not to draw the "finger pointing" from others. Growing up a PK, I commonly witnessed the people that would drive to church in their best cars wearing their best clothing to show it all off, and then they would stand and point fingers at others. My dad use to say that his elders (who did their share of the finger pointing) were the biggest sinners in the church.
Personally, I am excited to see a group of Christian men that see the value of men being honest with each other about the sin we encounter in life, as well as that God made us men to be men. Being a man is not sinful, as our society seems to want to tell us. Last December while at a Christmas party, I had a woman preacher look at me in disgust when she heard in a discussion on guns (and hunting) that I have a concealed carry permit (I did not bring up this fact, a friend did), because after all in her eyes, "guns plus men result in evil". No, guns in the hands of a good man will protect and defend his family, life, liberty, and property.
I have a barber who is a new, very excited Christian, after having once had a life of women, drugs, and jail time. He's told me how offended Christians act around him when they hear about his past. Maybe it would do us Christian men well to acknowledge our sin, be accepted for it by other Christian men without the finger pointing, and therefore receive the help to deal with it and to be better men.
My dad recently told me about a friend of his, and I quote, "I don't think he's a professing Christian, but he's got more integrity than most Christians I know. Really a neat man."
At 1:31 PM , Anonymous said...
If you really want to 'take back' the leadership in your churches, follow the principles set forth in I Timothy 3.
At 5:33 PM , Preacher's Kid said...
xtian said...
BTW "Freakin" as seen in the thread title is a minced oath...
"A minced oath: an expression of profanity which has been reduced or minced; Although seemingly not as harsh, they are generally avoided in speech as it is just a shortened form of the original profanity."
See: 'F_CK', 'F'in', 'Effin'..."Gee do you have any biblical support for this statement? Again it is never okay according to the bible.
A short time later, xtian said...
"Gee do you have any biblical support for this statement? Again it is never okay according to the bible."
xtian, "Gee" is a minced oath that means "God" or "Jesus". Seems harmless enough, doesn't it? But when you think about it, it's really more profane than the s-word or the f-word.
Hypocrisy happens so easily.
At 9:38 PM , Xtian said...
Preachers Kid,
You hit the nail on the head with the "Gee" thing, at least with me anyway.
After I looked it up and did some more research I did find some things that said "Gee" is a minced oath (IOW using God's name in vain). Now there were only two documents that said this, but its not the quantity of the documents, but the conviction that was put on my heart. As you know God will not hold those guiltess who do such things.
Thanks for pointing that out - I would stay and chat more, but I have some repenting to do. Peace.
TC&GB,
Xtian
At 9:58 PM , Xtian said...
BTW I forgot to add a video I compiled. Its on my youtube page...
Its called the Christian Matrix
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpbc7QhHH0Q
Enjoy!
Xtian
At 9:04 PM , Xtian said...
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
At 9:52 AM , Anonymous said...
the only way to re masculinize the church...is to follow what is written in new testament..bible asks the women must be silent and should not teach or rule men in the church.women should cover their head in worship.thus said god..and what do we see 2day..muslims donot allow women to enter worship place masjid let alone speak in the church..they want women to be veiled everywere.not just in the church.clearly what muslims practices is an exaggration of pauls teaching.paul wrote these words bcoz he was directed by the spirit of christ not by himself.he knew the importance of masculinity in church.now see these so called christians have done they have allowed women not only rule and teach men in church..but also it seems in homes!in no western churches u will se women veiled.anyone with normal intelligence can see y women love attend the church and christian services more than men coz it gives them freedom..only problem is this so called freedom is illict and will result in exploitation of women.history proves that feminism has mace women weak and vulnerable to exploitations.church today has bcome so feminized enough to allow women sexily withot any modesty in the church let alone other issues..... this is all a fullfillment of what prophet isiah said "o my people women rule them and their childeren persecute them".only thing that can be done and need to be done at this stage is...stand up be like men..christian men everywhere arise rule over your womenfolk as god said. follow whats written in THE WORD.
At 10:00 AM , Anonymous said...
o christian man dont be a sissy follow watz written in the word let women be silent in church donot allow them to rule or teach men veil them during worship.be upright follow the word jesus
At 11:35 AM , Xtian said...
Here is video you can check out...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTCaOqE3v9A
At 5:43 PM , 2soon2tell said...
To anonymous....
Put women in veils??? Sure. Right after we implement honor killings, and FGM.
Christ calls us to love our brides and sacrifice ourselves for them. They are called to submit to us. When men give up themselves for their wives, as a choice, with strength and humility, as an act of worship and obediance to God, they'll stop worrying about the other part.
You are calling for men to subjegate women. That called slavery. I hope you have the wisdom to know the difference. Other cultures have wives as property. In this culture we follow the scriptural principal of leaving our parents, and becoming one with our wives. We are part of each other. They are our partners, the other half of us.
You seem shocked that this culture lets women teach in homes. Only a foolish man would refuse to listen to the thoughts and wisdom that God pours out through the women that He created specifically for that man. I imagine that you cannot even begin to understand the concept of a life mate, a partner, one who is the other half of you and whom without you are incomplete. That's really sad, because you are truly missing out on what our loving God wants for his sons.
At 6:52 AM , Anonymous said...
sry... i never meant 2 subjugate or enslave women which is present in all cultures of world as a result of curse on eve in genesis. christian women can teach their childeren at home and also other woman.chritian men will join his wife and they become onebody...there is nothing barred in between them only love is there.husband can teach wife and wife can teach husband but it should be in mutual love.women shouldnt want to teach men because they can rule over them.its not godly.i accept ur concept of marriage 100% brother.but what i wanted to say is jst one simple thing.the commandments of women being silent at church and covering their head in worship should be upheld only then we will remasculinize the church effectievely.women should be silent in church means she is not allowed to teach men in a male female congregation.but is allowed to sing in choir, testify and praise jesus in the church and also to teach other woman and childeren in the church...this is the healthy concept bro plz open ur eyes 2 it...wishin u all the best and god bless!
At 7:03 AM , Anonymous said...
sry 2 soon 2 tell...u completely missunderstood me.i am not amale chuvanist or sexist...i only said that new testament teaching of women should be silent in church ...that is women are not allowed to teach men in male female christian meeting should be avoided.but a women is allowed to teach women and childeren and also to praise sing and testify in the church...i believe this is a healthy concept.so also veiling woman in christian worship is symbolic concept women are asked 2 cover their head in while praying and during public ministry...how can i be against the concept of marriage and male female union for saying just these to things already in bible...plz bro i fail 2 undrstnd u copmpletely...infact i am a person who love my wife unconditionally just as jesus loved the church although it may not be that perfect...and she knows it respects me for that...i hope u will give me a resonable answer...god bless!
At 5:11 AM , Anonymous said...
to 2 soon 2 tell ...u are jsr as ur name suggested ur 2 soon 2 jump in conclusions!frm wat i read anonymous didnt ment 2 veil women everywere!but only in church ..and atleast they should dress modestly in church!in the west men have allowed women to rule over them in the name of socialism!that is not the case in east were men still continue 2 rule.world will know peace only when east accept god of west and west accept culture of east!
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