IN RESPONSE TO THE L.A.TIMES ARTICLE
As much as we appreciate the stories written by Newsweek and the Los Angeles Times on our first GodMen event, we believe that some clarity should be established.
We're creating a Christian, men's only event where men are treated like men, with respect, no holds barred, and hit between the eyes. Men are far more likely to make powerful changes in their lives when they come into a setting where there's absolute freedom in exploring the difficulties we all face on our spiritual journey.
Because of the graphic nature of the topics that accompany this spiritual journey, we decided that there would be no typical church language decorum, but that as long as it was contextual, any use of language to define a point would be accepted.
That being said, within the entire six hour program, there were two words uttered that would not typically be heard in a church, and both were in context.
The phrase in the Times article "one profanity at a time" was a play on words. Unfortunately it was also misleading, though we believe the majority of the story was fair and accurate.
We also used some tongue-in-cheek songs about men so we could sing along and laugh with each other. If you weren't there and all you did was read this one article, you might come away with an impression of the event that isn't accurate. The men that were there, including numerous pastors, saw lives radically changed in a way that church services or even other men's conferences aren't well equipped to do. We hope this clears up any misconceptions of gratuitous language/concepts that would make no sense if you were not there.
Please join our email list so you can find out when the next GodMen event is happening. We will be making that announcement in the coming weeks.

32 Comments:
At 9:59 PM , BB said...
I'm glad this response was written. I was one that was concerned, and I guess still am, if there is somehow a notion that using ANY profanity is acceptable and will draw men closer to Christ. Yes, Christ was a man's man and we should shoot for that target & grow a spine as Christian men. Although we all "slip with our language" from time to time, I think it's fair to expect that at a planned, Christian men's event the language would be appropriate. You can still get the same message across. If someone needs to hear profanity to feel like they're "in" we're headed the wrong direction as strong spiritual leaders in our homes, churches, workplaces and communities.
That said, I'm waiting anxiously for the announcement of the next gathering so I can try & attend. I DO believe in this cause, and have always thought that Brad was an awesome comedian. I also felt that part of his "coolness" as a performer was that he could pull off such excellent bits by using NO foul language! You can do it, brother!
God bless you all in your mission.
At 12:14 PM , Roy said...
No one needs profanity or aggressive assertiveness to have a spine or to prove how much of a "man" he is.
Jesus treated every human being, man or woman, equally.
You want assertiveness? You want aggression? O.k.
Your teachings are blasphemous and completely against God! Christian leaders are accountable to God's people, whom the leaders serve, and should be "above reproach," "respectable," and "able to teach" (1 Tim. 3:2)
Furthermore...
"These six things doth the Lord hate; yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood.
A heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the Lord.
Divers weights, and divers measures, both of them are alike abominations to the Lord." (Proverbs 6:16 KJV)
Also...
"but now is the time to cast off and throw away hatred, cursing, and dirty language." Colossians [3:8-9][The Living Bible]
and...
Colossians [3:8-9] "But now ye also put off all these, anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, and filthy communication out of your mouth."
I am not saying that a Christian man should lie down and be trampled upon, on the contrary... he should biblically correct anyone, as I am doing to you now.
I read an article about your "movement" that stated Jesus went into the wilderness for 40 days and nights (paraphrased) "searching for His identity" Wrong. He was not searching for His identity, Jesus knows exactly who He is. He was battling Satan... quoting scriptures to correct him, as I am doing to you.
And about the husband's relationship with his wife, it's not supposed to be confrontational and one sided with the husband doing what he wishes, ...oh no, not at all.
"...husbands, this means love your wives, just as Christ loved the church. He gave up his life for her 26 to make her holy and clean, washed by the cleansing of God’s word.[a] 27 He did this to present her to himself as a glorious church without a spot or wrinkle or any other blemish. Instead, she will be holy and without fault." Ephesians 5:25-27 (New Living Translation)
I think you need to review the scriptures further. It will help you turn from, in Jesus' opinion, your wicked ways.
At 4:59 PM , Anonymous said...
As I read the post from BB I am excited for there is a future and a new correct movement for Christian men in this country. I then read Roy’s response and it troubles me, not to the point I would ever give up my faith or my desire to see the reenergizing of our force of powerful men which is all GODMEN is about, but still troubled.
I have lead men ministries in multiple states, and am currently in the military. I have served with warriors and have held a weapon to defend our country, and I can ensure you no one I had in my sights thought I was a good guy or loved them, yet I would have shot and if required I will hold my weapon again and do it again. This is both literal and spiritual, if we as men see something that is contrary to Biblical truths, we had better be willing to shot our weapons as well.
Well Roy I see my faith as a faith of warriors, when you read the bible you don’t read of the mighty wusses of flowers, you read of the might men of valor. You see Paul who was willing to stand up to the greatest earthly leader of his day. We are living in a country that is littered with men standing in churches because they are there to do “what is right”, not because they want to grow as a Christian leader.
It is OK for some men to not want to lead, not all are called to be leaders, but for those of us that are, don’t go to these meetings, and keep your churches the way you want them. I hope you enjoy your church and all those flowers, because I and my family will serve a God of power, not some wuss. Grow a pair and get mad I think our faith needs some men to turn some freaking, “do in memory of me” tables over and fight not only for our temples that have become a den of women, but for there own lives. I know my wife has thanked me for it, for there is no greater security than for our women to know we will fight for them and our Savior.
Slackin
At 6:29 PM , Anonymous said...
This response wasn't needed as far as I'm concerned, but maybe others needed the explanation to settle their feathers and calm their fears. I think any movement or effort toward re-building men in the image of God is probably a very good thing, and like any movement, it can be shaped like a bell curve. Those on one end will drag their feet, criticize, throw stones, then there will be the faithful followers in the middle who "get it" and want to be like the real Jesus, and there will no doubt be some on the other end of the curve who see the movement as an excuse to get macho, abrasive, arrogant, or who knows what. As a guy who bought the PK line hook, line and sinker, even to teaching and speaking at PK-sponsored and PK type events, I say, keep up the good work. The pendulum swing back into authentic, God-given masculinity is desperately needed at all levels. Go for it, and don't let a few detractors slow you down.
At 10:28 PM , Shawn Wilson said...
Everyone's a critic huh? If you don't do things like they want your wrong!! Well I'm glad people like Martin Luther, John Calvin, Wesley, etc had a big pair because if they listened to everyone else we would have the freedom we have now!! Keep up the good work.
At 11:55 AM , Anonymous said...
Hey--I'm really glad that someone has the balls to proclaim, "Christian manhood is BACK!" I'm a life-long church-goer who's chafed at the idea that anything overtly manly has bo be schooled out of us by a hyper-feminized-if-not-overtly-feminist- clergy, who seem to feel that the only socially/spiritually acceptable testosterone is that eminating from the mis-begotten glands of the lesbian crowd! (To clarify--I don't have any problems with gays and lesbians--even count some among my friends, but am really sick of the way that most mainline denominations have made the gay/lesbian agenda and cause THE major mission of the Christian church!)
If my broad-based religious education is accurate, the only Biblical injunction against "cussin'" is with the use of God's name in vain--which I believe Christian men and women should avoid doing. However, outside that big boundary lie some really juicy "vulgarities" that communicate our stuff with manly creativity and gless--and serve as some wonderful stress-relievers for our cramped-up lives in this hyper-politically-correct, feminized world we've let ourselves devolve into.
I'm signing up--hope you can put together an event for the Denver area this coming year!
At 6:00 PM , Gary Glass said...
A man's man. Shoot for the target. Hit between the eyes.
Sounds a bit too much like a Christian Fight Club.
At 10:17 AM , Anonymous said...
RE: the many responses objecting to profanity: I believe we're getting too hung up on a minor technicality here and missing the broader point of this energetic new organization, which is to encourage and support the rebirth of some manly ways of getting at "the Stuff that Matters."
The usual church experience has been so sanitized of testosterone and passion of any kind, that most men can't relate. It reminds me of my Freshman year at a church-related college where the majority of male students were such prissy little prudes they gave both manhood and Christianity a black eye!
I don't think the GodMen guys are saying we can cuss our way into the kindgom of God--any more than we can ARGUE or INTELLECTUALIZE our way in! I don't think they're saying we should go around farting and spewing forth profanities everywhere: in public, at work, in church, or in front of our wives and children--in some belligerent assertion of new-found spirituality.
I believe they are merely trying to provide a safe environment where men can be real about themselves, their feelings and issues, to open the door a lot wider for us to broach that difficult area of spirituality and where we might go with Christ. Most males beyond the age of 10 know that language is something to be chosen and adapted--like clothing. You don't wear hunting gear to a wedding, and you certainly don't wear a tux on a 3-day elk hunt! Let's use a little common sense here, guys! It's OK to talk and relate like guys in this accepting, protected environment GodMen puts forth--and when it opens up doors to that closer walk, I doubt if the Lord is too offended by a few of our farts and vulgarities.
At 12:50 AM , Danny said...
If you want to be a man, stop yapping about it and go do something...hey, there's billions of people in the 10/40 window who have never heard the Gospel. You wanna be dangerous? Go to Saudi Arabia and preach the Gospel...don't sit around and yap about Political Correctness, liberals, etc.
At 1:09 AM , danny said...
All this talk about being manly and having a great battle to fight just seems so phony.
Quit the navel gazing and actually DO something...
There is a real adventure to be had: it's in following Christ in taking the Gospel to the world...that means China, Iran, India, etc.
Want danger? Preach the Gospel in a Muslim country.
You wont find "danger" or manliness sitting at some conference.
At 3:08 PM , Anonymous said...
I have read a bit on this site and the Times article and am not bothered a bit - I am excited! AND I am a female, wife, mother. REAL MEN dont dominate their women. Women have nothing to fear from REAL MEN. My husband is a warrior and is the leader of our home - and I am always safe and secure. The children are safe and cared for. We need to let Men be Men again - it is one of the greatest losses that people are not even aware of that we have demasculanized our men in our current times. This sounds like an incredible organization - and I place I am happy not to go to - because Men are different from Women and should have their own space where their langauage is spoken. God Bless - keep it going! Our people need it!
At 12:44 AM , Jason said...
Danny, will we find danger and manliness on MySpace?
At 10:42 AM , fightingpreacher said...
Sorry everyone I was having issues with my other blog account. I was thesaint and now I am fightingpreacher. I have some responses to earlier posts.
"Sinners and hurting? Yes. I understand the desire to attract more men into churches; however, it is leading men into a devilish plot. Please, GodMen, don't fall into Satan's traps. There is a trend in Christianity today of getting men to delve more into pornography and/or violent behavior under the guise of being "real Christian men". Wild At Heart comes to mind, among others. Beating their breasts (in some cases), discussing fantasies that would make Hugh Hefner blush, and acting "macho" because "Jesus cleansed the temple and spent forty days in the wilderness" smack more of patriarchy than love for God."
Frist off I would like to say that no one in this group is approving of porngraphy!!!! NO ONE!!! Secondly, if by violence you mean watching Braveheart or some war movie, I think you should check out the meaning of the word violence. It has its roots in the word violate. You should review the subject matter before stating these types of opinions.
At 10:52 AM , fightingpreacher said...
Roy said
"but now is the time to cast off and throw away hatred, cursing, and dirty language." Colossians [3:8-9][The Living Bible] and...
Colossians [3:8-9] "But now ye also put off all these, anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, and filthy communication out of your mouth."
Roy it is funny that you should bring up these particular verses. I have 2 questions for you. First, do you have the ability to look something up in the Greek? Because the greek word used for filthy language is about degrading sex.
2nd, if you have used these verses in their proper linguistic, cultural, and Sciptural context then Paul himself has violated his own rule. IN Philippians 3:8 the word for Skubala is mistranslated according to Kittel's Theological Dictionary. It is better translated BS.
As far as the aggressive assertiveness...Violent Men shall take the Kingdom of God by force...seems to be aggressive assertiveness to me.
At 12:06 AM , Xtian said...
(1.) Now I've seen Brad in concert (he’s basically a “Christian” Dennis Leary) and read the website. What I find interesting is that there is no mention of being obedient to the one who saved us from Hell. Jesus said that he who loves me, obeys my commands. So all you wanna be dangerous Godmen, promises keepers, etc, let me ask a few questions to all men, regardless of “wussification”...
1. Do you spend time daily in prayer? And not that – God, let me not get caught for speeding… God, let the Broncos win the game this weekend, etc (all that “me, me, me” stuff).
2. Do you spend time daily reading His word? Where you humble yourself, seek His face, and hide His word in your heart that you might not sin against Him.
3. Do you lead your family in daily prayer? And not just “bless the food, lets eat” stuff
4. Do you lead your family in bible study? Explaining sin, grace, repentance, righteousness, etc.
5. Do you pray for the lost on a regular basis? And not just once a year when your church has its sponsored missionary visit.
6. Do you witness to the lost? 95% - 98% of U.S. Christians do not actively witness (verbally) to anyone as like Christ and His disciples did.
7. Do you teach your family (or others) how to witness? What’s that? All I hear are crickets chirping…
IOW all this rah-rah, grunt-grunt, testosterone "Man" stuff is okay I guess, but lets get down to where the rubber meets the road… do you set the example as a man of God, who OBEYS the commands of Him who saved you? In God’s eyes the importance is placed on “OBEYS’ and not on the gender/man part.
(2.) What I find it interesting is that swearing, regardless of the limited amount, is Okay'd with this "Godmen" thing (if this is indeed true). One question, would you curse in front of God? Or at church? If not then you had better stop & repent, because if you’re a real Christian, Jesus is in your heart everyday of the year, and its offensive to Him regardless of your physical location (gee doesn’t the bible say something about “out of the same mouth should not come blessings and cursing?” and be holy as I am holy). Apparently being a non-“wussified Godmen” makes us exempt from some of the biblical commands. Ummm… I think its found in the first book of Hesitations, chapter 10, verse 17.
(3.) As for the website that says “So we wanted to create an appropriate environment and theme where men could honestly and transparently share their struggles and failures amongst like-minded guys who will support them without judgment and without holding them to feminine standards.”
Unfortunately the bible does call us to judge actions, doctrines, beliefs, etc and see if we are in the faith. Numerous times scripture says to reject those who are not teaching or following God’s standard, if they do not submit to His gospel and message. I find it interesting that the website only mentions “feminine” standards, and says nothing about God’s standard, which is the only standard to which we are called to obey and focus on.
(4.) As for the men "trying to fulfill His will in their lives", they simply need to read and obey the word of God; sadly tho, we would rather sing songs about our testosterone?!?! Can you imagine what it will be like when you stand before God and He shows “that" clip of your life?...
"Gee God... it sounded great at the time, everyone else was doing it too & BTW I really did thank you for my testosterone... I really did want more of it too – its great stuff, I don’t know why you created us that way, so our testosterone levels naturally decrease over time, you really need to look into that... I’m sorry God, whats that? What do you mean "Did I sing more songs about being a man's man & praising testosterone than witnessing to those who were lost around me? What do you mean “Did I spend more time at “manly” events trying to be “manly” or actually obeying your word?"... Well God you just don’t understand, the modern Church wussified me and I had to learn and feel how to be “manly” first before I could be an obedient christian…” Scene fades to black with a huge thunderclap rolling across heaven, followed by dead silence. Ummm, doesn’t look good for the home team.
BTW I also like Danny’s comment about “dangerous” & “manliness”. It will not be found in any event, book or course. It requires obedience on the field of battle against powers that are not flesh and blood. Oh well, its good to see some people have a proper biblical perspective.
(5.) What I am really disgusted with is the lack of discipleship within individuals (myself included), the family, church, and organizations like this. They replace teaching believers how to effectively study, use and obey their bible, and they replace it with, you can’t be a “manly”, “spiritual”, “promise keeping’, “God Chasing” believer without going through our program, course, conference, book series, study, etc (fill in the blank with whatever the current buzzword is today). If you look at most of the other “unorthodox” programs and their “biblical” claims and promises for you, they often tap into nitch markets that require a series of materials, events &/or activities to achieve a sense of so called “Godly” self-worth, esteem, being &/or sense of accomplishment (with no actual acomplishments completed). Now this usually happens at the expense of not obeying what we as Christians, have already been called and commanded to do. The problem is that most U.S. Christians are not familiar enough to discern if what anyone is teaching, is biblical or not (BTW just because one throws around some scriptures doesnt mean what they are saying is "biblical").
Combine this to the mix…
Americans spend 8.5 billion dollars on self help books and events, and unfortunately U.S. Christians are falling for this hook, line and sinker (only 2.5% of christians tithe the full amount but millions of christians try to buy a sense of obedience by attending and reading christian self-help courses, books & events). Too bad this is not how it works. How do I know this? I have seen “Christianity” in other countries, and what we have in the U.S. pales in comparison not only to the “church” as seen in the book of Acts, but to what happens overseas as well where real fruits of obedience is the evidence of a (manly) christian.
In other countries around the world where I have traveled & lived (Thailand, Korea, Japan, Mexico, Panama) there are no problems with Christian men being wussified. Why? Because they are more concerned with seriously studying & knowing God’s word, AND doing what it says! They SACRIFICE the things of the world and the flesh, to follow God. The subject of “wuss-ification” never comes up. Why? Because if you’re a man and take God’s word seriously and stand up for Christ, you will be a manly Christian, but only IF you’re obedient to His word. When you obey Christ, out your love for the Savior, you become more like Him – bold, courageous, strong, steadfast, righteous, etc. We are also tempered with His love, gentleness and compassion (you cant be hard and tough all the time as you with wives & children know). Again the bible makes this extremely clear, but it is often unheeded.
(6.) Now I spent 20+ years in Army, I've jumped out of helicopters, drove tanks, shot & blown things up with the best of them, but when you encourage fellow believers to sin (filthy communication, swearing, AND demeaning the deity of Christ [Jesus was "searching for His identity" during the 40 days], etc) I have to agree with Roy... sin is sin, and it should be pointed out (backed up with scripture of course). Matter of fact, the bible commands us to assess and judge what other believers say, preach and do, just like the Bereans, in order to “stay within the faith”. God calls us to repent of our sin/s and follow Him. Sometimes it requires us to be "hard & rough" but never at the expense where we tread on the blood of Jesus Christ who saved us. What’s worse is to use the excuse of being a manly, testosterone filled "Godmen" to justify a little, insignificant sin (we will all give account for every word and deed - both committed and omitted – and ALL sins are serious enough for God to punish all those who are workers of lawlessness to eternal damnation). Again read the bible (OT & NT) and see how serious God is about sin. BTW I was once told that those who curse and swear are often ignorant of what should be said or done next... I guess that “study to be an approved workman” is optional for the real manly christians eh? NOT!
I hope that I am wrong about this organization, but every U.S. gender centered organization such as this one claims (from reading what little the website offers), falls short of biblical Christianity in regards to obedience, sacrifice and dying to self. To many it’s more important about how you “feel” about yourself, than doing what God commands.
I just see too many questionable areas where some believers will fall into error as they think that "feeling" manly is more important than being obedient.
Take care & God bless,
Xtian
At 5:23 PM , Xtian said...
Here are some other questionable comments Godmen/Stine have made of which I would like to comment on...
1. The group has three rules. First: only laymen are allowed as speakers, never pastors. “If a pastor says the wrong thing he can get fired,” Stine says. “A layman has nothing to lose.”
Lets not throw the baby out with the bath water. Whatever anyone says, if it is appropriate and used along the guidelines of scripture, it should be okay...
a. 2 Tim 4:2 "preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching."
b. Tit 2:12 "training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age,"
c. 2 Tim 3:16-17 "All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work."
d. 1 Tim 1:8 "Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully..."
If anyone says something in a conference that could lead to their termination in their church, I would be suspect that it was not appropriate for any situation. As for stating a layman has nothing to lose, I have to disagree; scripture is extremely clear that we all have something to lose.
1.5 Second: no one under 17 is admitted. “One of the biggest issues with men is their sexuality,” says Stine. “We are tired of Christianity sounding so candy-coated. If we can’t talk about real issues, what’s the point of the church?”
The problem I see with this is that we have more sexually active teens and young people than in any other time in history. By not pulling young men into the fray and addressing these problems sooner, will only re-enforce the stranglehold that sexual depravity (sin) has on young people (that will soon be men). Why allow sin to gain ground in any persons life for the sake of those who say "Its for men only" and no one under 17 is allowed? To me this is a great disservice not only to our sons and families, but the kingdom itself, by putting off problems that should be dealt with now (the scripture "train a child the way they should go" comes to mind; not wait till they are 17+).
The other thing that comes to mind, what is the purpose of church? Its to praise & worship God and equip the saints, and so that everyone can confess their sins and receive ministry so they can walk closer with God, serving in obedience. Its true that a lot of U.S. churches are missing the mark in dealing with peoples sin and overcoming the flesh, but that is a local problem and one that is not effecting the church outside the U.S. - something has to be done, but I dont think it has to do with maleness IMO.
1.75 And third: no women allowed. “We want to create an environment where we can talk to each other the way men really do,”
Okay but lets not forget God's call to to keep a civil tongue. One that is laced with Godly knowledge and wisdom, rather than profanity, no matter how insignificant man thinks it is. Remember that God's standard and how He deals with sin is harsh; it requires us to constantly rely on Christ and His work in our lives. To often when certian groups or sexes are prohibited, the opportunity to sin also increases (also when you forbide pastors).
2. “Jesus—A Very Bad Christian Man,” Coughlin spoke while a projector beamed a “Jesus was mighty disrespectful toward authority.” Then Coughlin riled the audience up: “You will never be able to be a warrior of light, to really fight on behalf of justice, if you think you have to be nice all the time!”
Jesus was not disrespectful toward authority; He was correcting those who were disobedient and rebellious to God's authority! That is a very big and important difference. As for the "you will never be able to be a warrior of light" by "being nice all the time" bit, has a bit of truth. Whenever we put anything between us and God it is idolatry. Truth is God only requires one who heeds His call to repentance and obedience. Instead of dealing with problem of "niceness", shouldn’t we address our flesh and sin, which separates us from God? Ummm... almost sounds biblical.
3. The GodMen also rejects typical Christian music. It “doesn’t usher me into the presence of God,” says Smith, Stine’s manager. “It just ushered me into boredom.” Not so with the GodMen band that played on Saturday. On stage, as a series of words flashed on screens—BOSS, BOLD, BRASH, BULLY, BLUNT—the band ripped into their first tune, “Testosterone High”: “Forget the ying and the yang/ I’ll take the boom and the bang/ Give me another dose of testosterone.”
Wow, to think that praise and worship's purpose is to usher us into the presence of God is so wrong. We praise and worship to lift up and glorify God. If your bored during praise and worship, you seriously need to re-assess your faith. As for a few of the words flashed across big screens...
BOSS = who are talking about? us or Christ?
BRASH = where in scripture are we called to be brash?
BULLY = ummmm... I dont see where God calls us to be a bully or that He is a bully, when I do see it, its often connected with those who commit sins and are rebellious against Him.
Now about the Testosterone High song... The problem is not our testosterone. We should be looking for another dose of submission, righteousness, holiness, obedience, etc.
4. When the GodMen band seized the stage again, they tore into an anthem called “Grow A Pair!”: “We’ve been beaten down/ Feminized by the culture crowd,” they sang. “No more nice guy, timid and ashamed/ We’ve had enough, cowboy up/ In the power of Jesus name/ Welcome to the battle/ A million men have got your back/ Jump up in the saddle/ Grab a sword, don’t be scared/ Be a man, grow a pair!”
We have been beaten down but its because us men disobey God and refuse to live up the responsibilities that are dictated to us by the bible. BTW a million men do not have your back, its only Jesus who we need and can rely on. Fellowship is great, but lets not replace our loyalty and dependence on Christ and give it to a bunch of men - IOW don’t let men come before God (2nd commandment). In the bible those that had the closest relationship with God, did not have millions of men behind them, but rather they submitted to God and forsaken all else to follow Him.
5. Tholstrup, as he surveyed the crowd: “If 200 men are feeling this, other men are feeling it too.” Which ought to provide enough testosterone for plenty of GodMen gatherings to come.
So just because 200 other men feel this and agree on this stuff proves that we should continue a celebration of maleness? Why not pattern our life on scripture and obeying God's word? Meeting for the sake of testosterone is lacking and missing the mark IMO.
6. Their manner cut against the many wicked stereotypes that both handcuff and marginalize men, especially in their homes--namely, that men by their very nature are “selfish.” GodMen helped them delve deeper into their pain, which guys tend to handle in secretive and shameful ways. Their unredeemed grief, father hunger, good sexual energy flowing in the wrong directions, and their feelings of powerlessness, are prone to gang up on men and corral them into shoots of self-destruction and onto ledges of despair. GodMen unleashed a new male spirituality that is tender-hearted and tough-minded, and in a way that the average guy can understand and celebrate. Sure, we provided our own Shock and Awe Campaign through music, videos, bold statements, and outrageous humor. I enjoyed being part of this unusual campaign because it led toward the redemption of the male soul and the resurrection of his vitality.
What about submitting our problems and sins to Christ? The bible also says that there is nothing "new" under the sun, so anytime someone says things like "new male spirituality", "new way to do church" or other similar terms, search the scriptures, ask for wisdom and discernment in evaluating such endeavors.
7. Brad Stine said in his blog... "Bono uses the F word in interviews occasionaly. Is he now less a Christian than the man who doesn't. He has the ear of heads of state in trying to eliminate poverty in third world countries as well as fighting AIDS. This proactive Christianity that doesn't simply pass the needy in the street while exclaiming God bless you but actualy attend to their needs seems very Christian indeed. Not to mention acknowledging Christ as the salvation to the world.
I would have first question if Bono is a Christian to begin with. His statements about religion in general do not jive with what the bible says, so I think using Bono as a "Christian" example is lacking at best. The question is not if Bono is a Christian but if he is a Christian who bears fruit as the bible dictates, but that is another thread altogether. Now would you use the F bomb in front of Jesus Christ? Remember that God seeks obedience over sacrifice, and he calls us to holiness.
8. Brad Stine also stated "I also believe that all the speakers should try to drive their talk with the thru-line of lifting men up."
Wow, I thot our lives should be spent lifting up Christ. Remember John the Baptist, said that "I must decrease so He can increase." If you look at the godly men of the bible you will see that they lifted up God first and foremost (no thru line that lifted anything else up but God), and for that God took care of them and gave them strength and peace during times of persecution and trials. How arrogant and self serving to think we need to spend time lifting up men as a means to get us on track with God. I would write more, but you get the point.
9. Brad Stine again... "Lets give men one event where they are unapologetically celebrated for their innate maleness w/o it being intrinsically suspect."
Gee, I thot we should celebrate Christ crucified and not ourselves. After all the angels and those in heaven worship & celebrate the King day and night. With such examples as these and others in the bible, I think I will gladly bow out of any celebration of my "innate maleness", and save that energy for obeying Christ.
10. A Newsweek article showed that this Godmen thing is already causing problems...
"some men at the conference run into trouble when they debut their new attitudes at home. Eric Miller, a construction worker, admits his wife is none too pleased when he takes off, alone, on a weekend camping trip a few weeks after the GodMen conference this fall. "She was a little bit leery of it, as we have an infant," he reports. "She said, 'I need your help around here.' " Miller, 26, refuses to yield: "I am supposed to be the leader of the family." He's pretty sure his wife will come around once she recognizes he's modeling his life after Jesus', like a good Christian should. It'll just take a little explaining, because the Jesus he has in mind is the guy on the wanted poster: "confrontational and sarcastic when he needed to be," Miller says, and determined to use "whatever means was necessary to achieve his goal."
The bible specifically states that those who dont take care of their family are worse than infidels. It also says that husbands are to take care of their family and that one has to make sacrifices to do so. As for Miller and his modeling himself after the picture of Christ that he has "in his mind", is dangerously close to idolatry - IOW Miller could be making a god that suits himself and one that neglects his family. I would hope that the Jesus that is being presented at Godmen, doesnt cause other men to treat their family in a sarcastic and confrontational manner - that will only tear families and churches apart even more. One problem with the Godmen presentation and its "end justifies the means" way approach is that for those who have little or no discernment, they can stray into dangerous error on all levels.
11. A Fort Wayne article reported... "When Stine, a born-again Christian, shouts that it’s OK to cuss – and then demonstrates with a defiant “bull …”."
I don’t see in scripture where its okay to cuss. Matter of fact the bible says the opposite - that we are not to be like the world. I am not saying that we are to be perfect right after we become a Christian, but as we grow closer in our walk with Jesus, we should cast off the things of the world and set the example (its that let no unwholesome words come out of your mouth" thing).
12. GodMen is his attempt (Brad Stine) to encourage men to get real. His speakers admit to masturbation and adultery. Such honesty, Stine contends, molds better, more godly men than a typical Sunday service.
Actually what makes more godly men are to train and encourage those to continue following Christ and when they come upon sin in their lives (flesh) they repent and confess and strive for holiness as God commanded (all which stems from a relationship that we have with Christ). Brad is also assuming that all Sunday services everywhere are lacking and not equipping the saints, worshiping God, etc, and that is not the truth. While I agree that a lot of the modern U.S. Churches today are turning church into a generic feel good meeting for the saved and unsaved alike, we need to be careful. I agree that we need to teach and preach the whole word of God and not just the parts that won’t offend sinners or saints.
and finally the last most disturbing comment I found...
13. Stine says. “Maybe worship could be hanging out with a bunch of guys, admitting we like blowing crap up.”
Wow, I think Brad needs to get into the bible and find the out real definition of worship instead of making up his own. Unfortunately he seems to thinks it’s about men, and not Jesus Christ. Be very careful of anyone who changes the definition of biblical terms like worship, praise, sin, obedience, etc that takes the emphasis off of God and Christ and puts it on earthly things. I take great offense with one who wants to change the worship that God established for his followers.
Please pray for Brad and this Godmen thing that they would search the scriptures and walk in holy righteousness. BTW I am still interested in attending a Godmen event, but as you can tell, I will be comparing it to God's standard, as I hope all men would do.
At 2:14 PM , Anonymous said...
wikepedia says godman is A godman is a colloquial name for a particular type of charismatic Hindu ascetic who have a high-profile presence, are capable of attracting attention and support from Indian society, and make claims of spiritual attainments. They sometimes claim to possess paranormal powers, such as clairvoyance, or healing abilities. They are often outside the establishment and may not have taken initiation and associated with that, they tend to live in their own ashrams, instead of that of belonging to a religious order. Their success comes, often not from the strength of their parampara, but from their personal qualities. They may however assert that they accept authority of a guru.
At 3:06 PM , George said...
I, for one, am so happy to have someone say, "It's OK to talk like you think and talk to others" that if for nothing I would seek out this venue. Personnaly I only feel the need once or twice a year to use the really crude words (e.g. the F word). But the whole range in between PC speach and street speech would allow a level of communication I have rarely been allowed since becoming a Christian.
Please don't shut it (the open language platform) before the movement even gets started.
At 3:15 PM , Young Turk said...
PS
If you can't make a point in one or two paragraphs, you are preaching or boring. Please, for the sake of a discussion (not a lecture), keep it under 100 words. Not too many people read beyond that and if you want to communicate with me and men like me who seriously feel called to this type of organization, keep it simple and short.
Don't want to yell at ya just how I feel.
I really want to hear your point about the cussin but you lost my attention span.
At 8:07 AM , Anonymous said...
This group is not helping men be men but giving them a license to be jerks. I've always thought of myself as your average guy. My parents were in the military, which means no room for sissies in our house. I have lived all over the world. I've got a brown belt in martial arts, soon to be a black belt in a couple of months, I'm an Eagle Scout, I love going out with my Dad and brothers for target practice, I love gaming,action films, camping, and rock music. But... even though I do all of these guy things I still put the lid down because I RESPECT others. I pray with my girlfriend because relationships don't stand a chance without Christ. I want to be the man she can depend on and love her like Christ loves the church, which is what we are supposed to do. I don't have to wear my masculinity like a cheesy t-shirt. A man that is really confident with his manhood won't have to go around proving it.
Your group is stereotyping men. You don't have to be a belching, yo woman, slob to be a man's man. As a matter of fact Christ set a far different example, one of servanthood, love, and compassion. All this group is doing is looking for an excuse to give in to our natural fleshly desires to put ourselves first at the expense of those around us.
My girlfriends' dad is as about as real man as they come. He was a truck driver and now has his own tree service business. He is a big tough guy with a real guy sense of humor. He loves Friday night poker, antique cars and trucks, and hunting, but he never had any problem letting his daughters play beauty shop with him when they were little or playing dolls with them. He doesn't mind taking his wife dancing either. As far as the flowers in the church, he doesn't feel his manhood is the least bit threatened by them. When he goes to church it is out of his love of God so the surroundings don't matter. He also has no problem putting the lid down either or picking up his underwear. His believes his wife has a really hard job caring for everyone and wants to help her out however he can. He reads books on things his wife is interested in so they have a lot to talk about. He leaves her love notes on the bathroom mirror. He works hard to set a godly example for his family and to be the spiritual leader that God has called him to be. He is passionate about sharing his faith with others. His take on your group is is that we were called to be imitators of Christ not Jackasses. He is a real GodMan.
I hope your group doesn't catch on because if it does I feel a lot of families will suffer because of it. I hope that those in your group will then be man enough to accept the consequences.
If all you real men wannabees are looking for a real challenge and are really interested in reaching the lost and changing lives you should go to http://www.livingwaters.com/learn/hellsbestkeptsecret.htm and listen. It will challenge the way you think in a way that this group won't and it will give you "something that matters". I did and it shattered my feel good christian world and opened my eyes to some hard biblical truths. Go ahead check it out..if you're man enough.
At 8:29 AM , Anonymous said...
To Young Turk, when you get to be Old Turk you will will have hopefully learned that not everything can be said in a few words so work on your attention span. "Me Tarzan, You Jane", doesn't quite cut it man. This is not only good in everyday life but really scores well with women too.
At 2:44 PM , anonymous apostate said...
I find alot of these posts funny. People who werent there telling people that were there what went on, and being absolutely wrong. I was there, and I am a FORMER christian. Thats right. Pagan to the core. I was raised in the church and eventually graduated from a conservative bible college with a degree in Bible Theology. Whats funny is alot of the people who have posted and werent there are way off. I left the faith because i didnt see God in the church. I didnt agree with some of the stuff at the conference but I do know that the stuff they taught made the men there better husbands, people, and even christians.
Christians arguing with Christians. That right there is Christ like... note the sarcasm, and yes, Jesus used it too.
At 3:10 PM , anonymous apostate said...
One last thing about the cursing... get over it. I dont normally cuss. Its a personal choice. Do I think it is a 'sin?' NO. It is my choice. Why is the word poop permissable but shit isnt? They mean the same thing. But some HUMAN a long time ago thought that one should be considered vulgar, not God. You can refer to Hell as a place but you cant use it as an expression of frustration. That makes complete sense.
People have told me that it is culturally wrong so Christians shouldnt do it. Well, if something is culturally ok would they do that?
If people go to the conference knowing that no language is off limits, they should expect to hear it. If they are offended by it... they knew they would be.
At 9:52 AM , Anonymous said...
hi godmen continue ur goodwork i am blogger frm asia.i know what ur doing is initiated by holyspirit coz i am a man.evangelical community in asia is also feminized.some have even said women are near god spiritually than men ,even a child will understand the pastors rattlin to encourage women have gone to the extend of creating a womans church men particularly young and manly find it hard to follow afeminized christ.infact i believe its not aginst bible for a christian man to take up arms ,organize militia for defence creat justice etc.i believe jesus said to forgive ur brother he ment it a message to both christian and the non christian coz he told to love ur enemy its a universal message.but he said ti his own disciples "let he who not haveth a sword let him sell his coat and buy woman". a woman will never undrstnd this as she was not created for this but man will.otherwise he is emasculated.bible also tells woman to be silent in the churches and cover their head durng worship.the godly order of creation is god christ man woman.infact no church today practice this ,they have left the godly order.remember bible tells he donot keep even the smallest of command is a sinner.he that donot care read fight for his family is worse than an infidel.god bless and let him make u a sword that will revolutianize the end time church to make it the spotlessly clean church before the coming of christ!!!
At 9:53 AM , Anonymous said...
hi godmen continue ur goodwork i am blogger frm asia.i know what ur doing is initiated by holyspirit coz i am a man.evangelical community in asia is also feminized.some have even said women are near god spiritually than men ,even a child will understand the pastors rattlin to encourage women have gone to the extend of creating a womans church men particularly young and manly find it hard to follow afeminized christ.infact i believe its not aginst bible for a christian man to take up arms ,organize militia for defence creat justice etc.i believe jesus said to forgive ur brother he ment it a message to both christian and the non christian coz he told to love ur enemy its a universal message.but he said ti his own disciples "let he who not haveth a sword let him sell his coat and buy woman". a woman will never undrstnd this as she was not created for this but man will.otherwise he is emasculated.bible also tells woman to be silent in the churches and cover their head durng worship.the godly order of creation is god christ man woman.infact no church today practice this ,they have left the godly order.remember bible tells he donot keep even the smallest of command is a sinner.he that donot care read fight for his family is worse than an infidel.god bless and let him make u a sword that will revolutianize the end time church to make it the spotlessly clean church before the coming of christ!!!
At 9:56 AM , Anonymous said...
sry 4 spelling mistake jesus said to his disciples in luke gospel to sell their coat and buy one sword .
At 2:07 AM , Xtian said...
The profanity is the least of my concerns... and I dont believe in this "cause"...
What doesnt surprise me about this "godmen" thing, is that it celebrates being a man (we celebrate everything else in the modern day American churches, why not our testosterone too), unfortunately the bible says otherwise - there is a much greater call for us to do, and unfortunately this ommission is a greater sin.
The bible says that if we love Him (Jesus) then we should obey His commands. I wonder how many "godmen" are going out witnessing on a regular basis. I wonder how many "godmen" are going to take a radical stand for Jesus Christ when this is all said and done. Or will the monday after the "godmen" event just be another normal day where most men will not utter a word to anyone about the saving power of Jesus Christ to their lost co-workers, families and friends. Or will it be another night in front of the tube watching monday night football, where the TV becomes a modern day idol that not only removes us from interacting with our families, but also removes us from interacting with God and fellow believers. Wake up men! Get rid of the TV and seek His face for a change!
Ummm... gee I wonder what Jesus will say on judgment day... "Have you prayed and witnessed to more lost souls, or have you watched more football games, monster truck pulls and hunting trips?
Suddenly this "godmen" thing seems so trivial when you consider that over 150,000 people die each day and the majority of them are going to burn in Hell; all because a bunch of men would rather celebrate their manliness and try to inject some "christian" testosterone back into the church. How disgusting that we can gather to rant, yell and rave about our "christian" testosterone but totally disobey the commands of the one who created us. After all, who are we to say what church is... but I guess if you dont read and take seriously the bible, then you can make church whatever you want, but lets look at it from God's perspective... what men should do...
Imagine God telling the stars to form and move to their places in the heavens, and they do. Imagine God telling the mountains to rise and valleys to move and shape the earth, and they do. Imagine God telling the winds to blow and the rain to fall, and they do. Imagine everything that God created in the first 5 days, and it all obeyed His commands...
But when God commands His men to witness to the lost, spend serious time in prayer, or lead his family in bible study... the majority of so called "christian" men say "NO!"... "I WANT TO CELEBRATE MY MANHOOD!"... "ITS MY RIGHT TO BE A MAN AND I WANT TO TAKE BACK THE CHURCH FROM THE WOMEN!"... "I WANT... I WANT... I WANT..." and "GIVE ME... GIVE ME... GIVE ME..."
Its disgusting... we sound like spoiled little children instead of men of God!
How sad it is that disobedience is so easily replaced with infatuation with ourselves and our testosterone... it all comes down to idolatry in the eyes of God. Have you not considered that the church is not male or female, but a place of obedience to God, where the saints are to be equipped for His good works? God sent His Son to die for all of us wicked men and all you can do is go to some event that centers and celebrates the pride of men, but you wont warn anyone of the judgment of God and the eternal fate of those who are lost? How much pride and selfishness have we come to fill ourselves with, that we cannot even tell if its right or wrong. We hide in the guise of a "cause" for "christian" men. How pitiful...
I have come to the point where all the fluff and eye candy of modern American Christianity is for nought in the eyes of God. What counts is obeying the One who saved us - I know middle school children who are more Godly than most men who will attend these events, children who will pray for the lost, read their bibles and actually do something about it.
Remember pride comes before the fall, so please lay down your manly pride and do the work has commanded you to do. Or have all you manly men forgotten what His commands are? or did you even know them to begin with?
Jesus said in Matt 10:32 "Every one, therefore, who shall confess me before men, I also will confess him before my Father who is in heaven and whoever shall deny me before men, I also will deny him before my Father who is in heaven."
If you want to be a real man of God, pray everyday by yourself and with your family. Lead your family in bible study and learn to explain to God's word. Hide His word in your heart and memorize scripture. Take care of orphans and widows, teach and preach the Good News to the lost on a regular basis... but do all this because you truely love Him who saved you, and not because your a "man".
I guess what I am saying is to not celebrate your testosterone until after you do this and there are no more lost people in your town, and no more widows or orphans in your town... well, move and go to the next town and do it again. Then when your state is no longer lost, move to another state... then another country... then after you have done all you can... you will see that celebrating your manliness is worthless because then you might see that Jesus is the one who deserves all worship, praise and celebration.
What is more important... your testosterone, which God designed to decrease as you get older, or one lost soul?
I hope that this "godmen" thing changes gears quickly to where it brings men to their knees in repentence, and then to action for HIS cause.
TC&GB,
Xtian
At 8:01 PM , Anonymous said...
xtian is quite concerned about obedience. Pure obedience is hard to achieve. I hope there is room for error or I for one am out
At 7:51 PM , Xtian said...
Anon said... "xtian is quite concerned about obedience. Pure obedience is hard to achieve. I hope there is room for error or I for one am out"
There is a difference between error and willfull disobedience. True, santification is a process, but again we must consult God's word. BTW the bible is concerned about obedience ;)
I would think that the way Brad defines "worship" and how it completely differs from what the bible says would be a red flag; apparently not. Then the implication that church should be more man centered (no pun intended) instead of God centered is another red flag.
BTW Jesus called us to have a personal relationship with Him (thru repentance, confession, faith, etc), then be obedient to His commands.
My big problem with Godmen is that it ignores some key things found in the bible.
Instead of buying this "godmen" thing hook, line and sinker, try using the bible as THE standard and compare what they say against God's word. The results are very interesting as I have pointed out. As a wise man once said..."Words have meaning". Ummm...
After all Jesus said that He and His words would last forever - so why take a gamble on the words of so-called "godmen", especially when they fly in the face of God's word?
Choose this day whom you will serve - your manliness or God.
Take care & God bless,
Xtian
At 9:58 PM , Xtian said...
BTW I forgot to add a video I compiled. Its on my youtube page...
Its called the Christian Matrix
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpbc7QhHH0Q
Enjoy!
Xtian
At 9:04 PM , Xtian said...
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
At 11:36 AM , Xtian said...
Here is an interesting video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTCaOqE3v9A
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